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Severe damage to Trace at Natural Bridge State Park
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Speleoguy
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Joined: 25 Jan 2010
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 11:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Traildust:

Wish I could join you on Saturday, but I'm committed to another volunteer work day a few miles away. Should things change, I may be able to meet up with you.

As far as the Forest Service not continuing to do the massive destruction seen on the Narrows Road, bet your money that they will continue. For too many years in too many places in eastern KY, this has been their way of doing business. That's why a number of retired USFS people absolutely loath the management methods being used. They love the land and hate to see it's needless destruction.

As you can see in my previous post, I've been talking to all sorts of people in order to get a sense of how the off-roader problem can be solved. It's time for everyone who loves this area to join with us and find solutions. If people don't quickly come together, eventually no one may be allowed to see and explore our beautiful public lands.
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veela-valoom
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Joined: 15 Feb 2009
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Location: Corbin

PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 9:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I find this issue with the Narrows road very interesting. It's a horrific site & even though I love hiking the look of those trenches from the video scare me. I hate the thought of making the beauty of nature inaccessible. If we can't appreciate it and learn from it, if nobody sees it then why are we preserving it?

I honestly believe there is a large audience for this story.

We're never going to be able to control idiots. That is something responsible people have to realize and accept. However the good should not always be punished because of the wicked. There has to be a middle ground which would probably leave all parties unsatifisfied, but those are normally the best compromises.
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jbd
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Joined: 07 Sep 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 11:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the solution for the off roaders is to create parks specifically for them and their purpose and keep them out of the wilderness areas that others wish to enjoy in a less harmful way.
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Speleoguy
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 4:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The problems of abuse in the Narrows Road / Sand Lick area might be more quickly resolved if everyone could see the area through my memories - see it's beauty from long, long ago.

I first started visiting this area and driving the roads in the early 1970's. In those days most every road was well groomed and maintained. Some roads were graveled, and some even had attractive vegetation planted along the sides. Most roads were created so that oil companies could maintain the oil and natural gas fields in the area. Because of this business need, the oil companies kept the roads in good shape.

When driving the roads, which in those days could be done in most any kind of 2-wheel drive car or truck, one got to see lots of oil and gas wells and other man-made appurtenances like oil tanks, buildings, and small lakes. It's hard to explain to those who never saw it, but there was a "romance" to the place which left most visitors desiring to return. And so we did, time and time again!

In was on these gentle adventures - enabled by these roads - that I was able to discover and explore several dozen caves, climb many cliffs and pinnacles, have many memorable campouts, and countless other adventures. It was these roads which enabled our Museum to locate some incredible Native American dwelling places - including the only true cliff dwelling known to exist in this part of the country.

As the oil boom ended in the late '70's, the roads began to deteriorate and require 4-wheel drive in many places. But we still continued to explore and savor the beauty of the area.

Eventually the roads became so bad that people began to find adventure on the roads themselves, and the area quickly became a mecca for off-road fun. The damage caused by this activity slowly destroyed the roads to the point that now, in many places, only dedicated off-road vehicles can travel. This unnecessary damage is what provided the U.S. Forest Service, the KY Department of Parks, and the KY State Nature Preserves Commission with the justification needed to begin destroying the roads in an attempt to keep everyone out.

It is my good memories and love for this area which drives me to protect it and work toward getting the most scenic roads, like the Narrows Road, reopened so that everyone, of whatever age or physical ability, driving whatever they might own, can have something of the beautiful experiences which I was privileged to have so very long ago.

The problems of abuse of this land - by off-roaders and the government - could easily be resolved if enough people were willing to come together and make it happen!
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Traildust
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Joined: 29 Sep 2008
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Location: Burtonville, Ky

PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 5:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Speleoguy wrote:
The problems of abuse in the Narrows Road / Sand Lick area might be more quickly resolved if everyone could see the area through my memories - see it's beauty from long, long ago.

I first started visiting this area and driving the roads in the early 1970's. In those days most every road was well groomed and maintained. Some roads were graveled, and some even had attractive vegetation planted along the sides. Most roads were created so that oil companies could maintain the oil and natural gas fields in the area. Because of this business need, the oil companies kept the roads in good shape.

When driving the roads, which in those days could be done in most any kind of 2-wheel drive car or truck, one got to see lots of oil and gas wells and other man-made appurtenances like oil tanks, buildings, and small lakes. It's hard to explain to those who never saw it, but there was a "romance" to the place which left most visitors desiring to return. And so we did, time and time again!

In was on these gentle adventures - enabled by these roads - that I was able to discover and explore several dozen caves, climb many cliffs and pinnacles, have many memorable campouts, and countless other adventures. It was these roads which enabled our Museum to locate some incredible Native American dwelling places - including the only true cliff dwelling known to exist in this part of the country.

As the oil boom ended in the late '70's, the roads began to deteriorate and require 4-wheel drive in many places. But we still continued to explore and savor the beauty of the area.

Eventually the roads became so bad that people began to find adventure on the roads themselves, and the area quickly became a mecca for off-road fun. The damage caused by this activity slowly destroyed the roads to the point that now, in many places, only dedicated off-road vehicles can travel. This unnecessary damage is what provided the U.S. Forest Service, the KY Department of Parks, and the KY State Nature Preserves Commission with the justification needed to begin destroying the roads in an attempt to keep everyone out.

It is my good memories and love for this area which drives me to protect it and work toward getting the most scenic roads, like the Narrows Road, reopened so that everyone, of whatever age or physical ability, driving whatever they might own, can have something of the beautiful experiences which I was privileged to have so very long ago.

The problems of abuse of this land - by off-roaders and the government - could easily be resolved if enough people were willing to come together and make it happen!


I understand where you are coming from on this issue. But what is the strategy for going forward? The problems of abuse of this land - by off-roaders and the government - could easily be resolved if enough people were willing to come together and make it happen![/ What are the steps to make this happen? Legislation? Meeting with Forest Service? Congressional support?

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Speleoguy
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 10:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Traildust:

Thank you for the reply and the questions! Since 2007, members of SaveOurCave.org have been trying to spread the word about government actions which were taken without adequate public input. The economy and the 2008 election year gave people far more to worry about than a little cave at Natural Bridge and other land access issues, so little progress was made toward righting these abuses of power.

Things seem to have changed. This year people are beginning to understand how many of their rights to responsibly use THEIR public lands have slowly been stolen away without their knowledge or permission. And they ain't happy!

As more and more people jump on our "bandwagon," ideas like public meetings in the Slade area are being discussed. Some manner of umbrella organization needs to be formed which will allow people of different - and sometimes opposing - interests to come together as one, in order to influence Legislators in Kentucky and Washington. The agencies which have limited our access to our lands will ONLY change policy if forced to do so by the Legislatures.

The creation of such an organization will be extremely difficult. Too many people have very opposite and adamant opinions about what access rights should be allowed on public lands. What I am trying to get them to understand is that if they continue this uncompromising way of thinking, there will never be any way to get back our lost access rights, and that in the future even more of our rights will be taken away. I'm in contact with a number of leaders of the various user groups, and most seem very willing to find a way to insure that the final say about the use of public lands will always rest in the hands of a duly educated public, i.e., "we the people." Even many in the off-road community seem ready to compromise in order to secure our rights.

Until some manner of umbrella organization can be formed, we urge all those who want to help us regain our access rights, and prevent further closures, to contact us at: SaveOurCave@yahoo.com
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Traildust
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 8:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe the best place to address this or the starting point is the Ky Recreational Trails Authority.
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Speleoguy
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 19, 2010 11:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Traildust:

It would be great if the Ky Recreational Trails Authority would become more active in protecting and maintaining trail access. But one has to ask where they were when the Narrows Road was so rudely closed? And where they were when other trails and attractions were closed - without justification or public input?

I can't speak for everyone at SaveOurCave, but I would certainly welcome any assistance the Trails Authority would offer in order to get some of these special places reopened for responsible public use. Whether such help is forthcoming will be a good indicator of just how representative the Trails Authority is of the wishes of the people of Kentucky.
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Speleoguy
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 19, 2010 11:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yesterday, I and one of the Directors of SaveOurCave walked a number of miles of dirt road in the Narrows/Barker Branch area. The primary purpose of our walk was to examine the environmental damage done by off-roaders and U.S. Forest Service. The secondary purpose was to explore some territory we had previously not seen, and to locate three caves which I had "lost" over the years.

We saw some beautiful new territory, found none of the caves, and found none of the petrified logs I was also searching for. But we did see massive amounts of damage to the roads and hillsides! In the areas we visited - viewing the matter as objectively as possible - we had to conclude that the environmental damage done by the Forest Service was much greater than the damage done by the off-roaders they were trying to keep out. Sad!

I am reminded of an Aesop Fable: Aesop told of a man who had a large ape as his manservant. One day the man decided to take a nap, so he put the ape to brushing flies away from him as he slept. The ape did his job well and kept the flies away from his Master, but one fly was very persistent. It would return again and again, despite the ape's best efforts. Eventually the fly landed squarely on the man's forehead. By this time the ape so enraged by the persistence of this fly, that he picked up a large stone and killed it.

The moral of this Fable: A rash friend is worse than a foe.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 27, 2014 5:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The important class to experience that all which comes around and because these are the natural assets taking care of them is very much important.
At the moment the basic review of it all is the thing that goes ahead.
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